tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.comments2022-06-25T09:56:53.786-06:00Taking Readings Stephen N. Greenleafhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00360074903309197387noreply@blogger.comBlogger153125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-21305794164741143542022-06-23T13:39:05.797-06:002022-06-23T13:39:05.797-06:00Hi Stephen, I was glad to find your book review of...Hi Stephen, I was glad to find your book review of Thompson's Transforming History (only by my determination to keep going to the next page and the next page in my web search). I keep this book as a touchstone from him re so-called 'schooling' or 'education'; he says, let's not lose sight of the fact that we are talking about aspiring to a "robust intergenerational transmission." <br /><br />This book is a treasure for us, for the children in our midst right now, and for the ones yet to be born. <br /><br />And fun that you referenced 'Leprechauns'..; I always said that Bill was the closest embodiment to a Leprechaun I ever met. And that was definitely intended as a high compliment!Tree House Treatshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01276256734414832095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-86871496461925785612022-03-17T07:59:05.658-06:002022-03-17T07:59:05.658-06:00Hi Steve, I hesitate to say much about Arendt befo...Hi Steve, I hesitate to say much about Arendt before finishing *The Human Condition,* but when she says for example<br /><br />> the Greeks in their classical period declared the whole field of the arts and crafts, where men work with instruments and do something not for its own sake but in order to produce something else, to be *banausic,*<br /><br />I wonder if she recognizes what I think I learn from *The Principles of Art* of Collingwood, that before there can be "arts and crafts," there must be something---call it just "art" or "expression"---that we do not do for the sake of anything else, because we don't really know yet what it is that we are doing, and *that* is why we are doing it!David Piercehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564655001525108734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-21404336712603415932021-11-06T09:59:04.743-06:002021-11-06T09:59:04.743-06:00Nicholas: Thanks for your note. I checked it out, ...Nicholas: Thanks for your note. I checked it out, and you (or anyone) can't get directly into my notes (most of which are generated from my reading on Kindle). However, two other possibilities are that I most those notes (open to the public) on my Goodreads account (if I remember to do so). Also, I'm happy to provide further information to you directly. (Many of the more recent books are from public libraries, so I sometimes don't have immediate access to them again, but most I do.) Anyway, if I can be of further assistance, please let me know. SteveStephen N. Greenleafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00360074903309197387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-20811670211687739542021-11-04T21:23:19.213-06:002021-11-04T21:23:19.213-06:00Thanks for these notes Stephen
I have occasionall...Thanks for these notes Stephen<br /><br />I have occasionally tried to follow your links but they are to 'Readwise' or some such app which won't really help me unless I sign up to it. I wouldn't mind signing up to it but it takes me through numerous routines before it will do anything and it doesn't explain itself before then. So I don't persevere beyond that point. It's a pity as I'd like to follow the links. But we all have our limits clicking things :)Nicholas Gruenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08979019731787830666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-20576243374754961162021-06-24T08:21:09.013-06:002021-06-24T08:21:09.013-06:00David,
Thanks for sharing this. I read the Frank ...David, <br />Thanks for sharing this. I read the Frank article & he no doubt has some good points. Populism has become too much of a catch-all term. And while I'm a bit skeptical of the halo he puts around the original American populists, it was an important movement, and as with many movements outside the mainstream, the parties (mostly Democrats) adopted many of the planks (and nominated Bryan 3x). Also, populism had, as I recall, has it's (post-1900) Tom Watson's, so, again, I'm not so sure of its unalloyed purity. <br /><br />Criticisms of democracy are real and legit. I'm with Churchill on democracy, and, in another counter-move, I'm for more of it at present. Finally, I was thinking of the reactionary popular (though never majority) movements in 20C Europe--specifically fascism & communism, when I decry "populism." Finally, those without great wealth who are dependent on economic and political forces beyond their control do have legitimate gripes, big ones. <br /><br />But will not the "common people" be the last to adapt to and accept changes that, for instance, are required to avert the disaster of further climate change? What will happen when a price is put on carbon and gas prices rise, even a bit (even though plans call for dividends from carbon pricing will be paid to all, benefiting the lower & middle incomes?) <br /><br />We need a vital political culture that that builds and uses institutions that favor understanding, deliberation, and potential for compromise. Democracy done right. Stephen N. Greenleafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00360074903309197387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-24311913468108533022021-06-24T07:42:16.700-06:002021-06-24T07:42:16.700-06:00David (and welcome eavesdroppers to our conversati...David (and welcome eavesdroppers to our conversation), <br /><br />1. I don't believe that we can establish any definitive definitions for liberty and justice. Indeed, both concepts are so broad, so expansive, that we must constantly struggle with them to give them meaning at any point in time. That being said, we certainly see changes through time about the value and meaning of each term. As I allude to in my review, in political thinking, the coming of modernity can be seen as the rise of "liberty/freedom" over "justice" as the primary good. This is not to say that concern for justice, as some sort of right order, has disappeared. To the contrary, the "saints" of the English Revolution, the fanatics of the French Revolution, and the "woke" of today strive for "justice" at the expense of any perceived impediments. So in the end, finding the right mix of liberty and justice must remain an ongoing political project. <br /><br />2. Collingwood and my other "favorite," Hannah Arendt, both trace our politics back to Greece & Rome, with Arendt favoring the model of Athenian democracy and Collingwood the model of Roman law. I think that Collingwood's contract model, a more historical model of social contract thinking, the better long-term model. But in any event, both thinkers emphasize the need for democratic political action. <br /><br />3. Your last paragraph (comment) concerning the failure of political action in the face of obvious problems to address: this opens a can of worms. Failures of human rationality, general ignorance, issues of deception and self-deception that pervade individuals and the public sphere, and the failure to have maintained a vital political culture--all play a role in our current political distress. In the U.S. currently, a reactionary right, even after the electoral demise of Trump, continues to exercise power in a way that works to undermine institutions (not that they don't need reforms). <br /><br />Getting back to Ophuls, in REQUIEM FOR MODERN POLITICS he anticipates where we are and many of the factors that got us here. The only thing that the book lacks in the way of analysis, perhaps, is appreciation of the role of the internet in undermining gatekeepers and allowing a new avenue of direct appeal and demagoguery to flood the field with falsehoods and disinformation. Also, note Ophuls's emphasis on Hobbes, a character, like Marx, with whom one can disagree but can't ignore, so rich and suggestive even while one can't buy absolutism or the dictatorship of the proletariat as the remedy. Stephen N. Greenleafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00360074903309197387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-49362306836109031672021-06-24T01:23:26.138-06:002021-06-24T01:23:26.138-06:00Steve, when you say, “Ophuls castigates the entire...Steve, when you say, “Ophuls castigates the entire liberal tradition, which at least until populism—a profoundly anti-intellectual, non-rational movement that took over the Republican Party—was the basis of all American political assumptions”<br /><br />—perhaps you do not mean the populist movement of the 1890s, of which Thomas Frank writes in <i>Harper’s,</i> <a href="https://harpers.org/archive/2020/05/how-the-anti-populists-stopped-bernie-sanders/" rel="nofollow">May 2020</a>, “Populism in its original formulation was profoundly, achingly democratic; it was also, by the standards of the time, anti-demagogic, pro-enlightenment, and pro-equality. In its heyday, and alone among American political parties of the time, the Populists stood strong for human rights. Populism had prominent female leaders. Populists despised tyrants and imperialism. Although not entirely immune to the racialism of its era, Populism defied the poisonous idea of Southern white solidarity …<br /><br />“… denunciations of populism like the ones we hear so frequently nowadays are part of a long tradition of pessimism about popular sovereignty and democratic participation. And it is that tradition of quasi-aristocratic scorn, rather than populism itself, that has allowed the paranoid right to flower so abundantly in our time.”David Piercehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564655001525108734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-27059634852182371402021-06-24T00:47:53.257-06:002021-06-24T00:47:53.257-06:00This is really interesting, Steve. I’m wondering ...This is really interesting, Steve. I’m wondering now how the distinction between justice and liberty relates to the distinction between finding morality in character and finding it in individual actions. Jonathan Haidt took up the latter distinction in <i>The Happiness Hypothesis</i> (2006), which I looked at a bit in a blog post you’ve seen, “<a href="https://polytropy.com/2017/02/10/nl-xi-desire/" rel="nofollow">NL XI: ‘Desire’</a>.”<br /><br />Since of thinkers who take up such matters, I have spent the most time with Collingwood (if not Plato), I’m thinking also of how <i>The New Leviathan</i> traces the essential notion of the contract back to Roman law.<br /><br />I think you allude to the paradox, or just stumblingblock, that while we must think about politics, it is futile if our thinking does not lead to meaningful action. Lots of people think they know what needs to be done; but if they <i>really</i> knew, then that thing would already have been done.David Piercehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564655001525108734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-77405837370931941402021-04-22T02:26:22.636-06:002021-04-22T02:26:22.636-06:00Hello, Nice post. After checking out a few of the ...Hello, Nice post. After checking out a few of the articles on your website, I seriously like your technique of blogging. I bookmarked it to my bookmark website list and will be checking back soon. Please visit my treediscountservice.com. Best <a href="https://treediscountservice.com/bel-air" rel="nofollow">Tree Trimming Bel Air</a> service provider. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17154341274629728211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-50547280024975635782021-04-22T02:19:57.603-06:002021-04-22T02:19:57.603-06:00Hello, Nice post. After checking out a few of the ...Hello, Nice post. After checking out a few of the articles on your website, I seriously like your technique of blogging. I bookmarked it to my bookmark website list and will be checking back soon. Please visit my treediscountservice.com. Best <a href="https://treediscountservice.com/bel-air" rel="nofollow">Tree Trimming Bel Air</a> service provider. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17154341274629728211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-19546953670061658362020-11-30T17:05:06.574-07:002020-11-30T17:05:06.574-07:00Thank you, stephen. I haven't yet made my acqu...Thank you, stephen. I haven't yet made my acquaintance with Vernon's book and didn't quite know what to expect from it. I thought it might address the secret teachings, which we know existed because Jesus says so -- that he taught the masses the secrets of the kingdom in parables but directly to his closest disciples. What we get in the New Testament is largely the parabolic teachings, and that gives us a clue, perhaps, to what Blake means by "The Bible of Hell" in *The Marriage of Heaven and Hell*. <br /><br />I'm not very familiar either with Barfield except for *Saving the Appearances*, which I thought a very good book, and I've always intended on pursuing Barfield further. I've not done that yet. Scott Prestonhttps://longsworde.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-72133477014549172062020-09-11T11:18:06.464-06:002020-09-11T11:18:06.464-06:00Arendt's criticism of Kant seems justified by ...Arendt's criticism of Kant seems justified by a passage from the <i>Critique of Pure Reason</i> (B x-xi) that is of some significance to me:<br /><br />"I believe that mathematics was left groping about for a long time (chiefly among the Egyptians), and that its transformation is to be ascribed to a <b>revolution,</b> brought about by the happy inspiration of a single man [Thales] in an attempt from which the road to be taken onward could no longer be missed, and the secure course of a science was entered on and prescribed for all time and to an infinite extent."<br /><br />No, people can get off the course of a science!David Piercehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564655001525108734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-79174744732399914002020-08-13T13:18:42.645-06:002020-08-13T13:18:42.645-06:00David, thanks for your comment. And my thanks for ...David, thanks for your comment. And my thanks for bringing it to my attention! (I'm hoping that a late response is better than none.) I certainly agree that science as a body of knowledge and as a human undertaking strives toward perfection, at least in the sense of certainty about our knowledge of the natural world. But as science continues its course, the horizon constantly recedes before our advances and our human foibles remain,stubbornly resistant to our aspirations. In this regard I take "science" and "scientists" (their statements) with a grain of salt. And (to venture into waters in which I cannot swim for long at all), it seems that "perfect" knowledge is impossible concerning topics such as complex systems and quantum mechanics, at least if "perfect" knowledge entails the ability to flawlessly predict the future. <br /><br />All this being said, I believe that we have to place our best bets based on the best we know at present. And thus, WEAR THE DAMNED MASK! is indeed my conclusion. <br />Thanks,<br />SteveStephen N. Greenleafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00360074903309197387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-60879596483669309302020-08-13T13:02:39.211-06:002020-08-13T13:02:39.211-06:00Nicholas Gruen: Thank you very much for your cont...Nicholas Gruen: Thank you very much for your contributions. I'm terribly sorry not to have seen them earlier. I thought Blogger gave me notice of comments (and it used to), but I just discovered it hasn't been. Thus, my tardy response. <br /><br />This being said, you can find "Man Goes Mad" in THE PHILOSOPHY OF ENCHANTMENT: STUDIES IN FOLKTALE, CULTURAL CRITICISM, & ANTHROPOLOGY by R.G. Collingwood, ed. by David Boucher, Wendy James, & Phillip Smallwood (2005), pp. 305-336. <br /><br />Thanks also for pointing me to your post. I enjoyed reading it not only viz. you reference to Collingwood (the team & the philosopher), but also your thoughts on economics. Although I don't know of Colllingwood directing his attention to "social science" as such, or to economics as a discipline. But it seems to me that Collingwood's blunt but also cutting critique of academic psychology would apply to all social sciences, and that attempting to mix natural science methods with historical studies (as Collingwood defines them) creates real quandaries and limitations. I think you're right in that the models and "laws" of economics are "good enough," but it's presumed scientific basis and rationality are also its Achilles Heel. Well, my two-bits from the peanut gallery. <br /><br />Thanks again, <br />SteveStephen N. Greenleafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00360074903309197387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-52874578294768960092020-08-06T00:01:25.613-06:002020-08-06T00:01:25.613-06:00We are fallible, but also perfectible, in the sens...We are fallible, but also perfectible, in the sense of Jesus's injunction, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” Collingwood took this to heart, I think, as does science, implicitly: we <i>can</i> know things, better and better.<br /><br />As I understand, treating the sun as a center around which planets revolved was the Copernican hypothesis that allowed discovery of Kepler's Laws, which could in turn be derived from Newton's Laws. These last are justified by their general usefulness; but for navigation and other purposes, keeping earth at the center may still be useful.<br /><br />A scientific conclusion beyond dispute is the germ theory of many diseases, including now Covid-19. The best way to keep the germs from doing harm is not always clear; but those who study the matter propose mask-wearing as reasonably efficacious against the novel coronavirus, and why not trust them? (I think I'm just repeating your message)David Piercehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564655001525108734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-82986837359842415232020-02-08T23:27:39.883-07:002020-02-08T23:27:39.883-07:00I sd have added to my last comment – search 'h...I sd have added to my last comment – search 'history' in the first link. (I don't expect you to be interested in my life story ;)Nicholas Gruenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08979019731787830666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-4264219220353382522020-02-08T23:25:42.261-07:002020-02-08T23:25:42.261-07:00As a fellow fan of Collingwood, I discovered this ...As a fellow fan of Collingwood, I discovered this blog searching for "Man goes mad"<br /><br />Thanks for those posts (and how does one get a copy of Collingwood's text?) <br /><br />I thought you might like to see what I took from history as an economist which is documented <a href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2017/09/03/my-60th-birthday-let-the-record-show/" rel="nofollow">here</a><br /><br />With an application to public policy <a href="https://www.themandarin.com.au/83318-nicholas-gruen-evaluation-knowledge-comes-not-numbers-questions/" rel="nofollow">here</a>Nicholas Gruenhttp://clubtroppo.com.au/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-72762463985299474052019-11-08T10:42:26.439-07:002019-11-08T10:42:26.439-07:00When I wrote in this post, "Rather than quote...When I wrote in this post, "Rather than quote it here, I'll devote a separate blog post to some extended quotation," I didn't think of the post that I'd written on 26 October about the "Propaganda of Irrationalism," which has extensive quotes from that chapter. I've gone back and added a bit & I suggest you go there if you have a further interest in what RGC had to say on this topic (which is well worth the time & effort. The post is here: <br /><br />https://sngthoughts.blogspot.com/2019/10/the-propaganda-of-irrationalism-from.html<br /><br />Stephen N. Greenleafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00360074903309197387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-80744828542739097102018-07-10T18:47:41.568-06:002018-07-10T18:47:41.568-06:00I loved reading this.
Thank you for sharing.I loved reading this. <br />Thank you for sharing.middlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16013886297642008234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-25470260323257664902018-05-08T04:02:48.507-06:002018-05-08T04:02:48.507-06:00Fascinating material on Ilyin who may not be as fr...Fascinating material on Ilyin who may not be as frothing a fascist as some Western pundits have painted him, although, like many Russians, he did see a need for a 'temporary' dictatorship, to steer Russia through the chaos that would ensue following the collapse of the USSR - which he envisioned in the 1950s. Putin is nodding in his direction, and also toward Vladimir Solovyov and Nikolai Berdyaev, two Russian philosophical mystics with a less political take on Russia's destiny. One has to say that at least Putin is asking his governors to read some demanding material.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11358915102304490264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-45322065242225472832018-05-03T08:29:09.139-06:002018-05-03T08:29:09.139-06:00Excellent advice for anyone wanting to understand ...Excellent advice for anyone wanting to understand Petersonmania.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11358915102304490264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-18375865274132064932018-03-16T01:45:12.486-06:002018-03-16T01:45:12.486-06:00No, nationalism was the best ideology of the 20th ...No, nationalism was the best ideology of the 20th century. <br /><br />The real problem was IMPERIALISM. <br /><br />It was nationalism that resisted and destroyed imperialism. <br /><br />Indian Nationalism kicked out British Imperialism. <br /><br />Algerian and Vietnamese nationalism defeated French imperialism. <br /><br />The resistance against Nazi imperialism was inspired by nationalism. <br /><br />Chinese nationalists resisted Japanese imperialism. <br /><br />Palestinian nationalists in West Bank resist the Zionist occupation.<br /><br />Poles and Russians fought to defend the motherland. <br /><br />And Soviet Union finally collapsed and nations were liberated. <br /><br />Too often, people conflate nationalism with imperialism. <br /><br />Nationalism is love of nation and respect for other nations. <br />Imperialism is violation of the sovereignty of other nations. <br /><br />Jew-run US is now an globalist-imperialist nation that cynically invokes 'human rights' and 'democracy' to invade and destroy other nations. <br /><br /><br />http://relevanceandsignificance.blogspot.com/2017/05/herbert-j-gans-hysteria-about-white.htmlAndrea Daley Utronebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16162115338754124046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-90273956548929670162017-08-02T10:36:11.596-06:002017-08-02T10:36:11.596-06:00Enjoyed reading this Steve! your dad did look like...Enjoyed reading this Steve! your dad did look like Ike! Funny. I enjoyed his museum in Abilene... even had his jeep in there. Rosehomebasehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02454164164069054417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-87397232298411057232016-11-18T21:12:33.607-07:002016-11-18T21:12:33.607-07:00Fair enough, Peter. The point was that the future ...Fair enough, Peter. The point was that the future is about choices. Of course, your knowledge comes from scientific investigation and not from revelation. But I believe it is not just a matter of expanding the realm of scientific knowledge that justifies your work and that of others like you, but it also reflects a recognition of civic duty. Scientists in fields like cliodynamics, the environment, and climate change, and other fields that directly affect the public good require scientists like you to speak out in the public realm as well as in the scientific one. Newton's work was fascinating, ground-breaking, and changed our view of the universe, but it did not, other than in the most oblique way, immediately change the course of empires or daily lives. A good deal of scientific research today has the potential to do so. "With great knowledge comes great responsibility and great power"--a variant on a superhero saying that pops into my mind, but it contains a measure of truth. This is the real mantle I want to foist upon you and your colleagues. I think you wear it well. Stephen N. Greenleafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00360074903309197387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7627150934643834052.post-86141455329529431882016-11-18T14:31:48.131-07:002016-11-18T14:31:48.131-07:00Hi Stephen, I am of course flattered by I still mu...Hi Stephen, I am of course flattered by I still must decline the honor. Note that I did not come up with the title of the article, and it has been changed by my request. So, paraphrasing Isaac Newton<br /><br />PROPHETIAE NON FINGOAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03644274153642252732noreply@blogger.com